Just Got this in my e-mail . There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. and our We really liked the handguard. 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It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. JavaScript is disabled. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. Thanks Bio. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. Thanks for opening my eyes. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. Profits before the 2A. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. Full Member. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Brand: Springfield. The SIG Rattler is something special. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. Looks pretty sweet . [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. Learn how your comment data is processed. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. It was too short. You are using an out of date browser. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Compare. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. New! The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. Sig Sauer. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. It's a little longer but CZ Bren 2 MS pistol can be had in 5.56 or 7.62x39 with a couple added inches of barrel than the Sig Rattler. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. The gas block is pinned in place. check out the. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. You have entered an incorrect email address! They are dead to me. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. This website contains many older reviews. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. What is it? He called it a stutter. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. Operation was very smooth and secure. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). In use, it seemed to all but disappear. This is the MCX Rattler. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. ". A PDW is not a rifle. Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. Also, its loaded with frills not often found at this price point. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. Keep Reading. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. MCX-SPEAR . With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Supporter+. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Why pay more? Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. Wow just read the article on TTAG. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. Let's pick up there. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. I mainly shoot at an indoor range. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. | Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said .
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