D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. Tougher than D2, but less wear-resistant. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. grivory Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. Thanks for the Article Larrin, 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. I think this website is aimed at dispelling these kinds of assertions. The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. EDGE RETENTION . Corrosion is not only cosmetic. Though the volume of carbonitrides in the steel is relatively high. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. You need a hard medium to sharpen it like diamond or boride. In some previous articles I have shown the balance between my toughness and edge retention measurements such as in the following chart, where the high alloy non-stainless are in orange and the blue are stainless: However, one issue with these charts are that difference in toughness is that a linear scale for toughness is a bit misleading for visualizing practical toughness differences. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. 14C28N Leek: D2 Leek: jonnymac44 Joined Sep 27, 2007 Messages 7,674 Oct 21, 2008 #2 Hey Michael, First off, the new 14C28N from Sandvik is just now hitting the streets, and I don't have any results just yet for you. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. It also improves edge retention and strength. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. Oh, thats great, thanks. With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article). Cookie Notice They differ little in composition and treatment. Its tough, but thats about it. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. No idea. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. This is an American-made powder steel. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. Now 14c28n is IMO the best budget steel out there. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. and our But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. The material increase machinability and strength. It has an HRc over 70, usually even harder than Maxamet. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. Elmax I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! So, its hard steel is easy to sharpen. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. 1095. Id think that line would be significantly to the left, more in the data swarm. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% it's relatively corrosion-resistant. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. I havent tested Sleipner yet. I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. I guess that was before I started reading. H2 They lack the carbon necessary to hold an edge, even during mild use. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). PESR would be an interesting topic too (also tied to LC200N). Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? We have our views as well, and here they are! Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. 1. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. MagnaCut If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. third and most important is what happened to the burr. European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1 The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. The benefit of this, of course, is that the steel holds an edge for a very, very long time. Approximately the same hardness, yes. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. rex 121 great work, larrin. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. 12C27 steel is extremely popular in the US knife market for its high hardness, high wear resistance, and great corrosion resistance. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. How would n680 compare to m690? Tanto D2. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. have extremely high edge retention. If you are a newbie, sharpening D2 knives will be a struggle, but it is doable with practice and the right sharpening tools. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. In many cases the cost of working with the steel for the knife companies is more significant than the cost of the steel itself. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? : knife a with a toughness of 5 and an angle of 20 degrees will perform as well in edge retention as knife b with a toughness of 3 and an angle of 15 degrees. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. All of the experiments shown below are possible thanks to supporters. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? drop point Quite an eyeopener! Alloying elements are an important ingredient vital in getting the best steel for the job. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. I can also say from personal experience that marine grade plywood will chaw up your saw blade and battery a lot quicker than standard plywood, but that probably says more about the glue that was used than the wood. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. D2 steel also offers similar toughness levels as the 14c28n steel, so both aren't really prone to chipping with proper use. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company.